Comments for Christmas and the Paganisation of Christianity at http://www.islam21c.com , comment 1 to 30 out of 20 comments http://www.islam21c.com Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:50:44 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-388 nah, I would've confiscated your Christmas tree!! "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." lol - sami Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:13:13 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-374 why, cause then you wouldn't have celebrated it? lol - lol Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:41:20 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-372 I wish I had read this before Christmas!! - Sami Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:23:41 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-369 How legitimate is 'happy holidays' - are they sanctified by Allah?? - Yaqub Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:34:47 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-366 And it was eid bro, come on, you've already forgotten?! - KSI Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:40:19 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-363 Notice KSI's very diplomatic wishing of merriment to all who have holidays due to existing national days of certain paganistic origin which are nonetheless taken in positive spirit by those unaccepting of their origin as days off to rest our exhausted souls ;) In the spirit of such joyous days of non-pagan intentions to simply laze around, happy holidays :D - Umer Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:58:21 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-360 Interesting discussion, however the fact remains, Nizami explained the meaning of this statement before quoting it and after stating it as shown below. It's very objective and the words 'I think' or 'I feel' don't come into it and so there is no opinion here, even if he personally is against it. 'There is additional proof which states that Christians held birthdays as sinful.' Origen6 states "of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below"7. 'Thus theologically, celebrations surrounding birthdays were not only non-existent, but also impermissible in early Christianity.' Anyways, I hope we can leave it at that. Oh yeh and if we could courteously stop accusing people of hypocrisy, which is what started this all off. Happy holidays! - KSI Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:42:26 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-359 Again, I disagree. The fact that Nizami is a Muslim and quoting Origin as to the evil of birthdays, seems to resonate a clear display of anti 'birthdayism'. HOwever, it is granted that not all Muslims celebrate the prophet's bday (although it seems most do). - Harry Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:19:00 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-358 It can't apply to the prophet Mohammed (saw), because the scriptures of religions before Islam don't hold authority in Islamic law, neither do the words of Origen. These quotes are used specifically here in the context of Christian tradition. For example, if the bible said something was permissible, it doesn't mean it's permissible islamically, and vice versa, if it said something was impermissible, it does not make it impermissible islamically. It's a whole different kettle of fish and therefore there can be no hypocrisy, as these quotes have not been established as Islamic principles to adhere to (they may bear similar traits but are not authoritative islamically speaking). As I said this argument is not about whether birthdays are islamically allowed or not. By all means this discussion can take place, about whether Islam endorses the birthday of the Prophet Mohammed (saw)or not, and I'm not alluding to its endorsement in any way (in fact I personally disagree with those who do), but it shouldn't get mixed up with this article, because this is not what the author was touching upon, although I agree wholeheartedly that there is some similarity. This article is strictly with regards to the origins of Christmas in Christianity and the contradictions therein. - KSI Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:14:03 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-357 Dear KSI, I beg to differ in regards to Muhammad's argument. I believe he was also attempting to argue that birthdays are generally against the religious norm. He quotes Origen: "of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below". Yes, it was in regards to Jesus, but equally applies to prophet Mohammed - Harry Fri, 04 Jan 2008 03:22:11 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-356 I think you've both missed the mark with your comments and that's not meant to be offensive. Allow me to explain why. Brother Nizami was writing about: 1. The fact that Christmas claims to have it's origins in the birth of Christ - which is false. 2. The fact that Christmas has its origins in pagan rituals. 3. The fact that therefore muslims should not follow its celebration, even if others do. He was not talking about whether people can celebrate occasions or not, or specifically whether we should celebrate birthdays. These are not what he discussed. Therefore Harry's example of celebration of the prophet's birthday has nothing to do with point 1 - 3 because he didn't say don't celebrate Jesus' birthday (although he doesn't encourage it anyway), he says that it wasn't even his birthday in the first place. And therefore although another bro has answered Harry's point, Harry's point is not valid in the first place as I just showed and should be put right and not answered in this way, as the direction of the discussion is now straying away from the article content (although justanotherbros argument is also valid, but as i believe not in keeping with the specific content of the article). - KSI Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:59:33 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-355 Islam does not sanction celebrating the birth of Mohammad (peace be upon him). There are some Muslims that do - and as you quite rightly say that is hyprocrisy due to the arguments laid out in the article. It is also completely incorrect since there are numerous scholarly opinions regarding which day our prophet was actually born. Admittedly the differences are not that severe since the different suggested dates only differ by about a 10 day period. But never the less the practice of celebrating the prophet Muhammad's birth should not be done since the celebrating of Birthday's has pagan routes. - justanotherbro Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:03:10 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-354 Don't Muslims celebrate Mohammed's birthday?? Whats with the hypocrisy? - harry Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:35:56 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-352 I cenrtainly think so, or it could possibly that Muslims have reached a level of ignorance where they do not know the fundamentals of faith - Sab k Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:28:50 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-351 I guess the question is, are most Muslims inclined towards irja'? - Abu Taha Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:56:10 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-350 Having told people about the 'paganisation of Christmas' it seems to me that many do not want to know. Therefore what do we do? It is not about takfeer but if somebody rejects truth and prefers to follow Christian tradition knowingly, is that not a rejection of Islam? Their excuse: "stop being an extremist!". - Abdur Rahman Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:34:59 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-349 The matter of the fact is that there exists Muslims who celebrate Christmas yearly, a few of which I met who were having Christmas Turkey etc. this year. Ignorance is rife among the Muslim community, especially among S.Asians and Africans. As Muhammad stated in his article on Arabic and the Qur'an we need to shun this culture of ignorance and liberalism (which tends to stray into kufr) and encourage the Muslim community to be more theologically aware. - eton Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:31:05 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-348 MashaAllaah this is a very informative essay that strikes upon many ambiguos topics for not only the muslims but christians as well. It is extremely well structured and I find myself in agreement with almost all of it. However as Ammar said above, how is it possible for the muslims to not see this as a 'religious' festival but as a 'common' one? Especially as Nizaami has pointed out that the name Christmas is synonymous of 'Christ's mass'. Again thanks for this! - Ibraheem Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:20:10 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-347 very true, but can the same be said of Muslims? Do most Muslims know why they're MUslims? I think this is one reason why certain Muslims who do not practice their faith believe that Islam can be passed on like an ethnicity!! - H Ammar Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:06:25 +0100 http://www.islam21c.com/general/christmas-and-the-paganisation-of-christianity.html#comment-346 I think one of the main problems with people these days, regardless of religious background, is that they prefer and feel more secure to be sheep and to just follow the flock. Hardly anyone bothers to investigate why we do certain things. Christmas has just become an opportunity for the rich to become richer. - Omar Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:52:22 +0100