Read today’s post: In response to last night’s shocking BBC Panorama by Dr Salman Butt
Read the ground-breaking report that shows that Extremism does NOT cause terrorism: A Decade Lost
Reactions to Charlie Hebdo
- Freedom of speech is an ideological construct by Afia Ahmed Chaudhry
- Freedom of Speech in France: For the Powerful, By the Powerful, With the Powerful by Hassan Colone
- We are not Charlie Sadia Habib by Islam21c
- My first response to the Paris incident Sh Haitham Al Haddad by Islam21c
- France Attack – the response [Video] by Dr Salman Butt
- Charlie Hebdo Shootings – Censored Video by Storm Clouds Gathering
- The moral hysteria of Je sues charlie by Prof Brian Klug
- This map shows every attack on French Muslims since Charlie Hebdo by Tell MAMA
- Paris attack designed to shore up France’s vassal status by Dr Paul Craig Roberts
- Charlie Hebdo and the Profiteers of Tragedy by AntiWar.com
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Very shortly this site will be famous among all blog people, due to it’s good
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I would say at this point that the House of Representatives includes a clear
Would be nice if the guy on the phone would talk for a second without chocking on his own words , does he have a a speech impediment? you couldn’t even think to point out that Being named Richard is NOT the same as being part of an Ideology, one is a community and a so called brotherhood while the other is nothing more than an name, James knows full well this OR maybe he doesn’t but the twit on the phone couldn’t even think as much as to pick up on that point, Its Islams leaders Imams an clerics that need to take the step to make it publicly clear that insults to Islam might be against the law under Sharia BUT NOT ANYWHERE ELSE and it is NOT for them to take such actions . this is as much about enforcing sharia law on a country than it is about murder and FOR THAT Islams leaders NEED to say something NOT privately BUT make a statement heard to the whole Islamic community that it is NOT OK.
the apology needs to come from the leaders for NOT making it clear that wherever Islam is a a minority ts priorities and rules MEAN NOTHING to non Muslims and it is for THEM to learn to respect others laws. try to tell me its all been said……far too many Muslims ONLY answer to their laws no matter the location and THAT is a fault of the leaders worth apologizing for when it leads to cases like this
easy why the Islamic community heads should jointly apopologize as it was an examples from the Koran acted out just as Mohammad did to the poets –kill those that mock the prophet …pretty simple -get wise on th Koran and it all becomes clear ..this egg rolls comparison with a richard ???? richard doesnt have a book that dictates murder of the mockers
I think the interviewer is pretty immature here and either is playing devils advocate or simply does not know much about the fundamentals of Islam. Not EVERYONES Islam I am sure, but we cannot escape the fact that the Qur’an is believed to be the ‘perfect and last revelation’, in a faith where only one God is real and the world should be ruled by Islamic law, something which could be described as a 7th century hell for most. This perfect text also clearly outlines a physical and spiritual war against non-believers, extreme violence and even the methods of dispatchment etc. This is the glaring problem that the media and even academics are largely not touching at the moment as it is too sensitive. Unfortunately this is having an adverse effect – nothing promotes anti-Islamic feeling more than saying this has nothing to do with Islam. If you do not believe in these sentiments, essentially saying Mohammad himself was not a Muslim (he truly embraced Jihad), then why even call yourself a Muslim in the first place? These are the sort of questions moderates should be asking themselves, it is in their hands, not for other people to point and corner them.
Yes. Or…the #FoxNewsFacts you’ve been feeding on might, just MIGHT, be a teeny weeny bit inaccurate.
You are free to hold (however fantastic) views you like but you’d better stay out of Birmingham and London, since only those terrible terrorist Muzlems are allowed there, aren’t they?
I agree Rich, but maybe you should ask why people feel they need to “research” these things?
I am sure that guy, like us all, is a little bit scared of potential attacks, like us all, he struggles to understand why these people do this, and like us all, he is wondering where this situation is taking us to.
Just a thought 😉
hello my name is Jurgen and i am a german and i feel that i must apologise for the conduct of my nation in the war. the sins of my ancestors actions fall on my back and i shall take my shame to my grave
No Jurgen, you don`t need because what the system told to you are not true.
So imagine for one secone if Muslims knock on your door and say “we are sorry” it wont change a thing. The terror will still exist. Why? Because It Has Nothing To Do With Muslims.
As much as frightened non-Muslims want it to be, Paris to have something to do with all Muslims it does not. A person not being able to grasp that does not make it any less true. Their cognitive dissonance is the problem here and it obfuscates the facts. But that’s what fear does.
Did you know that about 95% of Muslims murdered globally are murdered by Islamic terrorists? .
Fanatics with guns who crave power and possess psychopathic morality and the means to deliver death.
Should Muslims “apologise” to themselves when this happens? Will you apologise for the illegal war in Iraq that killed over ONE million non-combatants. It was done in our name, to protect us with a war on terror.
So, polarising and apologies pander to fear and lack of understanding we should not force regular people who have nothing to do with this do that. That’s the schism in civilised society the terrorists want to cause! Don’t play their game!
I think “you people” asking for an apology might mean Islam needs to unite and the moderates need to assist in that reform. You need to assist Muslims by not victimising them for something that has nothing to do with them.
Globally, disparity and poverty needs to also be cured and we need to also give a damn about the 95% I mentioned earlier. Not just when it comes too close for comfort. That’s just ignorant selfishness’s.
Lots of big words Mr Smith!
You make some valid points. Completely agree that asking for an apology from Muslims is a redundant point. There’s no benefit to it.
It’s staggering that there are some that say these attacks having nothing to do with Islam. They quite clearly do. However, that is not the same as saying ‘all Muslims are complicit with this’ and should be held accountable.
In my view, religion is the problem – its the cause behind the majority of wars throughout history.
Have to say I didn’t enjoy the interview and didn’t particularly agree with the ‘Richard’ comparison. Just felt like someone ridiculing someone of inferior intelligence.
Interesting to make a comparison to the catholic church, and not follow up.
if the people preaching ‘ŕadical’ islam were priests that had abused children, a resoonsible journalist would ask
– who knew and why was he allowed access to the youth?
– will he continue to be a priest?
– how will you ensure that he no longrr has access to the youth?
All I see from radical islam, is excuses. Consider
I can abuse children -it is about interpretation
we know he abused 12 children last week, but it is ok becsuse he was known to the authorities as a sex offender
need I go on?
We demanded that the catholic church address child abuse, and now we should demand that muslims address radicalisation!
Mate, I’m afraid you’re building this on an incorrect premise that violent actions are CAUSED by one’s ideology. This has been comprehensively refuted with not only an absence of empirical evidence but the overwhelming empirical studies showing the opposite – that a terrorist’s ideology is incidental not causative. It was a shock to me too since this has been the narrative used to fuel and justify the expansion of the security services’ reach and mass surveillance, counter terrorism policy in the last decade, etc. etc. but it’s something that pretty much ALL those who research the topic of radicalisation and terrorism based on actual studies of the data say. This report in this article is a good summary written by some professor on the subject: https://www.islam21c.com/politics/new-study-extremism-does-not-cause-terrorism-2/
I have not read the entire report, but I did quickly look at the bullet points.
Please see my previous comment below, as this has not been understood by the author of that report.
It clearly recognizes “alienated and marginalized youth” being the target group for terrorist organisations.
As previously stated, the common perception among our Muslim populations, is that this was an attack by Israel made to look like an attack by Islam.
Surely you would see that “alienated and marginalized youth” could easily be the result of a section of our society that feel our government is conspiring with Jews to prosecute them.
Upset any Muslim in a chat room, and you will usually be called a “baby bombing Jew”, and so I guess that we represent everything that Muslims hate once they buy into this theory.
These attacks are extremely clever, and the organisations behind them have a lot of experience in Islamismising populations.
The only question is, what do you do about it?
I dare say that, while there are, as James O’Brien points out, many facets and factions in the Muslim “community”, some of whom have terrorized each other form the get go of Islam (much like Christians in their respective history), there may be a point in saying that each and every one of these individual factions, in some way share the burden of their wayward agents, despite the clear disassociation from wrong action. Yet this is not intended as call for an apology by any of their leaders!
To follow the O’Brien’s rather slick but typically mediatic and shallow metaphor, if I were called “Richard” and took this name to be a vital part of my very existence, and this identity linked me to a group of terrorists (not just one or a few) who also have strong bonds with this name, I actually might think about talking some sense into some of my brother & sister ‘Richards”. Fair enough, an apology would not be forthcoming when they drag “our” name through the mud, but in my view, the comparison James makes, is indeed quite unfair and not to the actual point.
To ask an Italian to take responsibility and or apologize for Mafia, N’drangeta, Camorra and other crime family actions is, in James’ logic, as useless as asking a Muslim to do so for crimes committed by other muslims. Yet, are we to expect Angela Merkel to do take responsibility and wax apologetic for deeds not done by her, in order to warrant that her German State be free of corruption in government and private sectors, and that this will by some magical proxy help squash crime syndicates in Italy? I dare say that criminality and corruption in the Italian system must (and can only) be thwarted from within, and that it remains mostly in Italian hands to provide the tools, rules and leadership to get the beast under control in some way.
I cannot say if hate and enemy mongering is fostered more in those growing up in the realms of one religion or another, but my unscientific, back-of-the-mind sampling during my lifetime (half century), gives me cause to ponder if the Muslim world, as severely fractured as it is along religious, cultural and economic lines (again, like others) has not managed to produce more violent fighters, waving the green (now black) flag causing grief and mayhem inside Islam and in other “worlds”.
While there has been plenty of state and corporate sponsored “Western” (read that “non Islamic”) physical-, economic- and other violence perpetrated in the same timeframe, rarely has the Christian/Jewish flag been waved as its main justification. Even Israeli violence is not, in my view, Jewish per se, but about their push for territory and security.
I know there are many people in faith communities of all types who want to keep their faith clean, honest and unapologetically strong. I hope that tides will turn for the Truth to come forth and dispel the darkness out of the hearts, minds and mouths of those who will willfully and ignorantly hijack the truth-banners of their religion to make shortcuts and gain imagined victories over their brothers and sisters of their own and different faiths.
Richard obrien is a bully on air if someone doesn’t agree with his views he bullies them, I listen to LBC all the time but avoid his time on air as he is very frustrating to listen too.
I know he has a job to do but he loves to cause dismay and awkwardness at the callers expense.if he doesn’t agree with their views he cuts them off and moves to another caller
You don’t even know his name. It’s James not Richard. If you actually did ever listen to him you’d know that. The truth is you don’t listen to him at all. You avoid him as you fundamentally disagree with his politics. Which is fine, but at least be honest about your reasons.
Absolutely brilliant James, well done for shutting up this idiot
My view is that muslims don’t need to apologise.What I would like to see is a mega mass demo by muslims against Islamists.Its their religion that is being hijacked.I know that Islamists don’t speak for muslims.Racists don’t speak for me and over the years ive demoed against them.Many muslims have protested against Israel but many people will see that nothings been done against Islamists.It may be that muslims are doing their bit and the medias not showing it.If that’s the case then make it go viral via social media.Imagine thousands of muslims peacefully protesting against Islamists…not in our name..thatd be so powerful for muslims and non muslims I want to live in a country where we can all co exist…we need to unite against terrorism.
Adrian, You are barking on the wring tree. What are you talking about is that all Muslims get together about Billion of them and they all plan a crime against humanity deliberaltey like German did to Jews or Americans did to Vietnam and like Britian and America did to Iraqis and Afghans as matter of policy and sophiticated planning. You think that French tragedy was a formal organised response by Islamic community against the French. Who host millions of Muslims and provide them food and good life and future and treat them as equal. ONe has to barking mad to do that intentionally. There is not need for Muslims to apologies. It should be condemned for sure and without any shadow of doubt. No justification for any one Muslim, Jew or Christian, Indian Buddisht democrat or Atheist to kill a single inncocent person PERIOD. Now if we few criminals do an acto fo violance and name it with some one then 1 Billion people get balme for it. You guys ought to get it through your edcuated and open and highly eveloved minds that an act of violence or crime can not be then be associated as a blanket on all of the community. If you cant understand this much then surely you trying to settle your hate, your ignorance or bias against group of people. James O Brian did the right thing. All Richards should aplologies to us for shoe bomber.
My respected friend, the way I see it, the media has the ability to blow something up or treat it as insignificant, and people’s minds and thinking are controlled by the media, Muslims can condemn and protest, like they are doing all the time, from now until the end of time, the anti Muslim feeling is not going to change as long as media will sensationalize any thing done by a Muslims individual, after all, they have to sell newspapers.
I do not know this broadcaster, but shame on him, as an experienced broadcaster, for bullying this caller to push his own biased point of view. This is trending because you agree with point of view, but it does not excuse such poor journalism!
I do not think that Muslims should apologize by the way, but in the aftermath of such a violent attack in the name of Islam, why is not acceptable that people would wish to seek some assurance from other people who also identify themselves as Islamic that they do not hold similar views?
I doubt that any normal Muslims are rejoicing at these killings, but what many people do not know is that the conspiracy theory is already gaining acceptance among the Muslim community that this was not an Islamic attack, but a Jewish / Western government “staging” of an Islamic attack.
Why is this important? Well, in the face of such a disgusting act carried out by an Islamic terrorist organisation, Muslims are viewing THEMSELVES as the victims
The aim of this attack was to make the Muslims of Europe and Britain feel like oppressed victims of the states in which they live, (causing them to distrust those states and forge stronger links with their Islamic identity) and so the target, the timing, and the additional “chatter” are all aspects of this plan that have been deliberately omitted form main stream media.
Feel free to stifle the debate with clever humiliation of people trying to voice their concerns, but the hard fact is, when we have a group that view themselves as oppressed victims that are angry at the states in which they live, this will inevitably lead to division and violence.
Maybe this broadcaster may wish to discuss that on his next radio show, and do some good for humanity in preference to feel good for putting this poor guy down and riding the wave of support that you all seem to be giving him?
You are misguided. I am called Richard … I had no choice in that name … my parents gave me that name like I became an Anglican at birth. Why should I feel obliged to apologise for Richard the Shoe Bomber ? If I were a Muslim I would feel mighty pissed off with some high and mighty person telling me to apologise. apologies lost all meaning anyway when Tony Blair and that idiot Clegg took to the scene.
We all heard the tape, it was bad enough the first time, so no re-runs please.
The one thing that i did agree in my comment, was that that individuals Muslims should not need feel the need to apologize.
Feel free to pull me up anything that I actually did say that you disagree with though 😉
Agreed, The broadcaster acted totally unprofessional. Sounded like a complete bully with no direction.
Bit of a stupid argument really. There is no community of people called richard. There is no book of richard. There are no guiding tenets of richard. I think what the caller should have said is that instead of making an apology, muslim authorities should go full out there and say these attacks were not in the name of islam, and those attackers have no right to call themselves muslims.
We do , we Muslims don’t even consider them Muslims as they r misguided themselves and misguiding the world. Majority of Muslims condemned these attacks. Wt about those who slaughtered school children in Pakistan? World should remember who financed these bigots.WEST. Go eradicate them now, it’s your responsibility.
Are you not also the “west”?
Please stand with your countrymen, and not portray the west as a separate entity, or do you not feel that your community is part of the west?
That is so stupid to say.
Many Muslim organizations have said that this is un-Islamic. It is Islamic for non-Muslims, because they read in the media and believe and they do not do any research to find out the truth, these people have never heard something called, GOOGLE.
Reality is these attacks have nothing to do with Islam. They are to do with disenfranchised young men and women being preyed upon by evil sadists. The irony here is when we blame Islam and Muslims we actually give the terrorists what they want, division, this actually pushing these young people further into the arms of these blood thirsty man men which creates more terrorists.
Is there any point having a debate with James O’Brien, he just ridicules and talks over people with different opinions to his, or calls them racist when they clearly aren’t to try and shut them up.
It’s no real surprise that there is tension between communities in the UK when the county is run by out of touch, overly politically correct, self-righteous assholes like James O’Brien.
You are absolutely right. Every Christian should apologise for the sex abuse by the Christian Church, the slave trade, the two great wars, the colonisation and subjugation of millions of people, killing of women and children and other innocent civilians by drones etc,etc,. You get my gist!
You’re doing it exactly what this guy was complaining about! Engage with what is said instead of just shouting someone down. This guy probably even agrees with you on that matter but you just decide to attack him on a strawman.
As an aside. The church should absolutely be apologetic and look disdainfully on the things which have been carried out in its name. It is the only way for it to be self critical and forward moving which is necessary for a religion if it is to be a force for good.
Hardly a ‘Masterclass’. He was taking advantage of his position, training and experience as a broadcater. A true professional would have helped the ‘amateur-on-the-airwaves-Richard’ make his point rather than use stupid analogies to get him tongue tied.
I think you will find what he did was show “Richard” and anyone else who holds the same view (and sadly there are far too many that do) that his view point is total nonsense. Richard only started to get tongue tied because it became obvious his point was invalid yet he didn’t want to back down.
Absolute garbage. O’Brien is a skilled rhetorician and a trained journalist: he uses his oratory skill to badger and bamboozle his callers instead of trying to coax legitimate opinion like any half decent interviewer would do.
What’s the point in inviting people to speak on your show if all you do is rubbish them for it?
all these religious people make me lol, all these religious folks saying this and that. if there is a god for you , which you do believe , then which ever god it is , and which ever religion it is doesn’t matter and there can be only 1 creator and the other religions are dead and wrong. this is people killing people for something no one can even prove. how can people take life and claim god is behind them yet not one human being since time began can 100% prove there is a superior being. I question this to every religious person, you are all nuts and all idiots, do you honestly believe that a god would give you the most beautiful thing which is life and expect you to spend it worshiping. and then give you the ability to make children who can think for themselves?
if god existed and he was Christian why did he make Muslims? if god existed and was Jew why did he make Christians , your all blind and nuts and you deserve each other
It was never about religion, but Media like teach ou the way they like to….
Got your point; the same as most agnostics. We consider the “3 revealed scriptures” to be from the same God, yes indeed. But the religion is in fact 1 -> Submission to the 1 God, albeit with a different written law for each community, depending on the time-frame during which messengers been sent to them.
You have all freedom of speech to say whatever you want. Your views are respected, don’t want to believe in any higher soul, don’t go for it, but those who believe, follow, practice peacefully let them . Forcibly killing others to shut them down is barbaric.
Simon very true words. When people research and learn whence their mono theistic religions actually come from then we might get a society that doesn’t continually goad various factions into attacking each other when they all fundamentally follow the same miss guided philosophy. The trouble is none of them likes the truth that their misguided belief system is based on a political ideology to control the masses. Read the article attached and draw your own conclusions . Lastly NO one has the right to take another persons life because they disagree with them as the existence of any god has never been proven without doubt to actually exist. There is no Hell (except the one we make ourselves live in) and above us is only sky. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism
His words, before being cut off and attacked for the remainder of the call, were: “Most Muslims have absolutely no part in this. It is a fundamental, minority group doing this. But I think an apology is needed.” Now, what part of “I think an apology is needed” sounds like a person “demanding Muslims apologise” as the title of the video paints it. Anyone?
If you can say anything you want under freedom of speech then there is no such thing as Racism, sexism, homophobia … etc
Not true. You have the freedom of speech to express any racist/sexist/homophobic view that you want, but just because you are free to say it, does not mean you are free of the consequences of what you say. And you are no less a racist/sexist/homophobe just because you had the freedom to express your vile opinion.
But you can’t say “what you want” under freedom of speech. Therefore the analogy is a weak one, because it’s based on an assumption that is palpably incorrect.
Nothing to apologise for. Remember that policeman Ahmed Merabet was executed in the line of duty responding to the extremists and that Lassana Bathily saved the lives of 6 Jews by hiding them in the freezer at the kosher market. Muslims can stand proud for their actions in the face of extremism whether Front National or Islamic.
Nobody asked Catholics to apologize or denounce every attack done by Irish Catholics or asked Anglicans to denounce the Irish protestants. Nobody is asking Catholics or Italians to apologize for the Mafia. Why should we expect the Muslims to apologize for acts perpetrated by terrorists?
MUSLIMS DONT NEED TO APOLOGISE BUT THEY NEED TO CONDEM THIS ACTIONS
IT IS STUPID TO APOLOGISE FOR SOMETHING YOU PERSONALLY DIDNT DO BUT IF YOU ARE PART OF A RELIGION OR A MOVEMENT THAT PROMOTE HATERD SILENCE MEENS THAT YOU MIGHT AGREE WITH THIS AGENDA THIER FOR ITS EASIER TO GENERALISE.
THIS EXPERIMENT OF BRINGING MUSLIMS TO EUROPE AND TRY TO EMBED WESTERN VALUS CLEARLY FAILD.
I think you’ll find that Muslims ALREADY HAVE condemned these actions. Even the head of the Lebonese Hezbollah said it was contrary to their aims. When the leader of the freaking militant wing of Shi’a Islam says it was wrong.. what else do you actually want? Get your head out of your ass and look at the world and realise everyone is outraged at these cowardly murderers using a religion as a banner. The people who committed these murders? Their religion is irrelevant. Their nationality is irrelevant. Granting them the moniker of ‘terrorist’ only lets them create terror and racial hatred and actually lets them achieve their goals. They are mere murderers. Idiots using a banner, any banner, as an excuse to go out and kill people because they want to go fire a gun and fill a void in their lives that makes them somehow feel less worthless. Do not glorify them with acknowledging them as anything other than a group of individuals who decided to kill innocent people. Let them rot in indignity, imprisoned, knowing they made no impact on the world except for the sad loss of life they caused.. that they caused no racial hatred, no bias of faith and no outrage against Muslims, leaving behind only a legacy of being known as cowardly murderers.
Well, as everyone knows that its all about BLOOD. So let me ask from you, Was Hitler Muslim or not???? Worst part is that these media make you animal, because they show what they want to, but never tell you the truth? killing thousands of innocent peoples in Palestine didn’t wake you up from your sleep, but this crucial act makes you angry. What kind of Law is that where you kill someone and remain not guilty for the rest of life and on other hand its look like frozen fire. Does it make sense, i am sure it does.
Well, as everyone knows that its all about BLOOD. So let me ask from you, Was Hitler Muslim or not???? Worst part is that these media make you animal, because they show what they want to, but never tell you the truth? killing thousands of innocent peoples in Palestine didn’t wake you up from your sleep, but this crucial act makes you angry. What kind of Law is that where you kill someone and remain not guilty for the rest of life and on other hand its look like frozen fire. Does it make sense, i am sure it does.
No office, but you should better ask Q’s from your self WHAT YOU SEE…
So what you’re saying is that every time some nutjob kills someone in the name of islam/judaism/etc everyone around the world who identifies with the same religion must defend themselves and prove they don’t feel the same way. In that vain then as a Jew you should condemn the slaughter and oppression of Palestinians, if you don’t then you must surely approve…maybe you’re planning to join Israel, are you going to start attacking Palestinians on the street because you haven’t condemned Israel? No, your argument is completely illogical.
Well done !!!!
You realise how ridiculous that sounds? If someone purporting to share your religious views (in a very broad sense) does something bad, you need to condemn them JUST IN CASE someone thinks you might agree with their actions? If yes, then all Christians need to release official statements apologising for Anders Breivik’s actions, and if they don’t it should be assumed they are all planning their own massacres. Let’s lock them all up!
The vast, VAST majority of Muslims are not “part of a religion or a movement that promote haterd [sic]”, so they are under no obligation so say anything to anyone about this, least of all an absolute moron like yourself.
Because bringing Jews into Europe went brilliantly.
The same experiment of letting Jews rule the west is also making life unbearable in that part of the world where people are gutless to put Jews in their own place. A lot of the trouble and security issues we are confronting today are the result of so e Jews running the show in the West. It is time for things to change. No unreasonable favour should be given to anyone, whether you are Jew, Muslim or whatever.
That is a bit racist. One could say the same for any race, including the Jews
Very well said!
I would have liked O’Brien to have allowed his caller to talk a bit more. Not because I agreed with the caller, but because I think it would have made O’Brien more sympathetic, and because I think the caller would have eventually have given himself enough rope to hang himself, without O’Brien’s help.
i do not require apologies , in the same way the German nation do not need to apologise for a few nazis .or the Japanese for the war atrocities or me for our great nation for once believing that an Empire might the right thing or the slave trade , IT WASNT ME .
However condemnation of the acts and resolution to try and ensure it doesn’t happen again should be de rigeur in these situations.
It all gets a bit silly, doesn’t it?! I think it’s obvious what the caller is trying (but failing) to convey. Put it this way … I’ve apoligised to friends and family for the crap behaviour one night of my younger sibling. Nothing to do with me, but I felt compelled to apologise on her behalf. Using this as an example, then it wouldn’t be such a big deal if the Muslim community made a statement saying they were apalled by these current events and were sorry that these crimes were committed in the name of Islam. But there again, I’ve seen lots of posts and video clips etc from muslims saying just that … so I’m not sure what all the fuss is about
That is because you know your younger sibling- you’ve been raised together with the same values that your parents tried to instill in you. I’ve never in my life met the terrorists. I don’t know their families or value.
If someone started being rude and said ‘this is in the name of Clare’s parents and the values that they taught’, should you still be responsible to apologize? Or would people come to YOU and say “it is so sad that that person lied and used your family’s name when you had never interacted with this person,” ?
It is not about if Muslims are or are not apologizing. It is more of the fact that we are somehow expected to.
For anyone who thinks Muslim’s & Muslim leaders don’t stand up against extremism and terrorism, I urge you to look at this – media.giphy.com/media/TlK63EwiHqemn41RRHq/giphy.gif
It may well be the best GIF on the internet.
Muslim leaders all over the world are standing up against the terrible things committed by minorities, and the majority of media corporations are not reporting them. Maybe they have a different agenda than peace?
I think this Richard has proven himself to be more of a [****!]
I don’t see all the Muslim leaders and the muslim people on the street preaching against those f****r that use the religion to commit those crimes ,and if u don’t like cartoons about u god f**k off to u country cos this one there is a freedom of speech .
You realize that most Muslims in America are american born? Muslim doesn’t mean foreign. Muslims do speak up about what people hiding behind islam do, but nobody listens. Christians don’t speak on people who commit sins in the name of Jesus so, you sound ignorant. I know plenty of Muslims who are great people, is the media making islam into something it’s not. Learn to think for yourself instead of listening to [********} the media spouts. I’m sure you’d be angry if someone made fun of something close to you.
Well..you might not see their protests on BBC CNN..but I assure you the muslim community do protest against these attacks within their mosques to their fellow muslims, in sermons. events, and lectures..the muslims are sorry for not doing enough to attract mainstream media to their protests so people such as you can give a satisfactory tick towards it..
i dont see all christians and christian leaders apologizing for the acts of christians who decide to murder people!!!! listen to the recording before opening your ill educated [****].
Relax Ricardo he wasn’t really having a go at Richards.
Of course Muslims should not have to apologise for the actions of idiots acting in the name of Islam but O’Brien almost gets as silly as the poster on here claiming that ISIS is CIA funded as if they are to blame for the atrocities!
A name does not imply belief – faith does.
…. oops I hadn’t finished
Apart from the fact that I think maybe the community which these men evolved in should take some responsibility, and we ALL should be doing more to stop this ever happening again, the idea of all Muslims having to apologise for this act is crazy and completely wrong.
I understand Richards anger and frustrations and I forgive him for this as I believe that there is certainly a sentiment in the west that….
A Muslim Shooter = An entire religon
A Black shooter = An entire race
a White shooter = Mental problems of an individual
I am demanding apologies from every pizza delivery man and fish counter server I meet, I haven’t decided to ask people with phys ed degrees or petty criminals yet……
Hmmm it’s a tough one.
Bill Clinton apologised for Americas involvement in slavery.
Tony Blair apologised for the UK’s response to the Irish potato famine.
I think in reality these apologies were more a strong act of condemnation rather than an apology per se. Either way they were a good gesture that helped the healing process. I don’t think it’s necessarily the same thing but there are some parallels.
I like the way James O’Brien dealt with this caller, who was probably slightly bigoted, but also I think that like many people Richard feels anger and frustraition towards the events and is looking for someone to blame.
Here’s my view –
As a muslim myself, I think it’s important that we all vocally condemn these acts expressing that we’re even more angry as not only have they committed discussing and cowardly crimes, but they used our faith in the name of it.
Rather than wash our hands of this entirely (or worse vocally washing our hands of it), I think that all Muslims should be activly working harder within all the seperate communities to both condemn these acts AND to stop this from ever happening again.
These men were mislead and someone, somewhere mislead them in the name of Islam. We can’t forget that.
This should never have happened and the comminity which these guys evolved (NOT MUSLIMS IN GENERAL) should take some measures to prevent this happening again and maybe (I say maybe) even appologise for not doing enough to prevent this happening in the first place. It would be the stongest act of condemnation.
For example, concerning some of the community based in and around Finsbury Park, London (Muslim and non Muslim) who where aware of the actions of the hate cleric Abu Hamza…
Many people rightly spoke up against these teachings of hatred and worked are to close him down and even sentence him. I have allot of respect for those people (muslim and non muslim) who put their time into making this happen.
BUT I feel that those who were aware of his teachings and the situation and remained silent – should probably apologise as I feel it was their duty as a muslim (or human being in general) to have worked harder to close him down faster.
I think any intelligent person knows that terrorists anywhere do not represent the majority around them.
What could be better is the Islamic religion being more vocal in their condemnation of such acts within the country concerned (rather than small scale within individual mosques). This perhaps is not being given enough coverage if it is happening, but I don’t know whether it is? The media are unlikely to give it sufficient coverage UNLESS done alongside highly visible political figures in unity. That would be a refreshing change to see. Perhaps the Public Relations side of things needs improving by those religious leaders who have the power to do so?
I shall remember the O’Brien line of argument the next time someone argues the British owe something to the world because of the British Empire.
Or the next time someone argues that the Paris attacks are the result of a small collection of western leaders conceiving various articles of foreign policy.
Or the next time a feminist declares white middle class males are responsible for all the evils in the world and the creation of the dreaded ‘patriarchy!’
Ahmed J is obviously someone to be aware of ! Muslims who practise their faith without fanatical prejudices should not have to apologise for anything done by the evil people who are carrying out acts of barbarism , wanting the world to believe that they are the only true Muslims . However all true Muslims , Sunni or otherwise, should be loudly condemning with one voice , the practices of fanatics who are sullying Islam , instead of just responding to unfair and unjustified criticism as on this page.
Regarding the comments of Joanne , I am a lapsed Catholic and during my long career (32 years from 1957 )in London, worked alongside numerous Irishmen from north and south and Asians of various religious beliefs and never once suspected or espied any anti Irish sentiments from any of my colleagues, even during the height of the IRA activity , and feel quite proud that hate and prejudice did not exist amongst us as a group of people.
As a lifelong Richard I would like to represent the Richard community and apologise on behalf of all Richards everywhere. Except Richard Reed (The shoe Bomber) and Reed Richards (Mr Fantastic).
I, too, would like to apologise on behalf of the Richard community for the behaviour and opinions of Richard in Maidenhead.
Reasonable people understand and accept that the gunmen in Paris do NOT represent Islam, do not act in the name of Islam and are very far removed from the principles of Islam, despite the actual claims of the gunmen.
Animals Rights activists who attack medical research centres do not represent the animal loving community of Britain. Animal lovers do not, therefore, need to apologise for the criminals.
Heterosexual men who carry out homophobic acts of violence do not represent the general heterosexual community of Britain. Heterosexual people do not, therefore, need to apologise for the criminals.
Why, then, do Muslims need to apologise for the gunmen???
Part of the problem is that the media opts to describe the gunmen as “Islamic Terrorists”, thereby reinforcing the perception that they are the responsibility of the Islamic community.
We ought to describe them simply as murderous and completely misguided individuals.
I am proud to have been born Muslim. I am more proud that non-Muslims are aware of the evil of these few so-called terrorists who do NOT represent Islam at all. Judge ignorance for what it is. Knowledge and understanding will breed compassion and forgiveness. The core of humankind is to love one another regardless of religious affiliation. My religion will not be hijacked by self-appointed martyrs. They are going to hell for their acts of evil against innocent victims and their acts of betraying their own religion. Peace.
Nicely said Selina. May I copy your comment and post it on fb.
Fantastic and yes James O’Brien savaged the caller. But he should have thought his argument through before coming On Air.
How many times have I heard that these terrorists are not Muslim. A terrorist may be Christian, Jew, Buddhist and host of other religions or even non religious, but what separates Muslims from other religions is how Islam is entrenched as a complete form of living/life.
In one breath you say that they do not represent Islam yet on the other you state that they are self appointed martyrs and betraying their own religion which satisfies many people that they are Muslim and are following Islam albeit a salafism type approach.
This is the dichotomy I find in Islam where on the one side apologist say these acts have nothing to do with Islam and yet many are leaving for the Islamist groups in Iraq and Syria as well as parts of North Africa to follow a very fundamental and barbaric Islam.
why should they apologies… Isis is CIA funded. Fed up of stupid people believing all these lies which breed hate against Muslims. What we should do is look at what was in the news prior to the attacks. Duke of York hanging out with paedophiles. How the conservatives make money for elections. All these stories have disappeared from our screens and papers.
Your absolutely right John! Those stories were appalling of young boys being abused even murdered… It would shake any parent to the bone!! We have more peodophiles walking around than even the slightest chance of a terrorist yet the hatred is aimed at us Muslims.
I’m really not a racist BUT I think the decades of ppl fearing a black person sitting next to u on the bus, as a girl I remember old ladies clutching their handbags if a black man stood next to them.. We are at an age where if a loner white man walks thru a park, it makes my instincts go on overdrive! I’d rather sit next to a Muslim with a back pack than a peodo.
What an absolute moron you are. Please don’t procreate.
I am a British Muslim and a proud one and I condemn such awful acts being committed by these sick people and the banner of Islam. As a Muslim I don’t see why I need to apologise for them because what is being done by these awful people has nothing to do with the Islam I was brought up in and practice. This type of radical Islam has no place in today’s society for the sake of humanity and rather than different nations and cultures pointing the finger of blame we should all be working in unison to get rid of this cancer. I am really surprised at Richards comment and it clear shows his wife is the brains in that family and not him.
Well said Mutahir, the media does seem to have a poor understanding of Islam and unable to identify true Islamists.
On behalf of my husband, Richard, I apologise for Richard the Numbskull from Reading.
I hope you’ve had time to reflect of what you said, because now you can be the poster boy for the new enlightenment! #MuslimsArentTerrorists!
so when IRA commits terrorists act in England, do the irish have to aplogize? or even anyone who has irish background in north america and australia have also to apologize?…non sense…everyone condemns these satanic attacks as united against violence and against terrorism.
Absolutely right! And as an irish woman I have childhood memories of the anti Irish sentiment that existed during the 80’s in the UK, specifically London as my family travelled there often. , not pleasant. So I feel for Muslims, just trying to live their lives in peace and normality while all the time being held responsible for the actions of lunatics who happen to be the same religion as them.
Joanne, my father came to England from Yemen in the 60s… He recalled when looking for a room to board, lodgers would have a sign on the window, No Irish, No Coloreds, No Dogs.
That’s how we were classed, as dogs! Where’s our parents apologies for how they were treated.
This counter argument against an Islamic apology was not only poor, but was also presented in a belligerent and naive way. James O’Brien delivered his counter arguments with such little comprehension of the argument and shut down his caller with arrogance and utter misunderstanding.
Islam is one of many monotheism’s throughout the world. Each monotheism has a history of violence and bloodshed throughout it’s history and in the modern world, Islam is proving to be the most prolific.
As an organised religion, Islam must be held accountable for the acts done in it’s name. For all the good that a religion does, the damage and suffering it can also cause must also be accepted as part of its dogma. This point is not just valid for the senior members of the religion within its hierarchy, but for each individual member who claims to believe in the faith.
The sentence: “This is not my Islam,” cannot stand as an argument against an apology, for the simple fact that the source for the interpretation of your religion compared to an extremist is largely the same and so it IS your Islam and you have to stand by all the actions that occur within it. If this is something you don’t agree with, then you should also disagree with the religion as a whole.
All monotheism are broken into factions, some more extreme in their interpretation of the faith than others, however their belief is all based on the same basic concepts and their interpretation largely comes from one source, the holy book.
The good and bad actions of each religion HAVE to be accountable to that religion.
The argument that if one person called Richard kills another, then do all Richards have to apologise is clearly misunderstanding the basis of faith and demonstrates a real naive understanding of the argument.
Firstly, Being called Richard is not something you choose. Religion is a lifestyle choice, it is not compulsory. Next, Nobody kills in the name of Richard, a religious extremist believes their faith tells them to kill and lastly, their is no set of values and beliefs that can be interpreted specifically for “Richards.” Their is no such thing as Richardism which holds a set of standards and superstitions that only people called Richard have to obey.
Why is it such a problem for Islam to stand and defy extremism with an apology?
Why isn’t it ashamed of the actions done in it’s name?
If it is then it has a duty to say so and to apologise.
Why is religion so against outside scrutiny of the flaws within it’s system?
the logic of Richard is like saying even muslims, or someone like Ahmed the policeman killed in france, has to apologize to France. in other words, even though the number one victims and largest deaths of this extremism are muslims in the muslim world, when the killing happens in a western country muslims are called to apologise and own it. it is double standard and twisted logic. #jesuisahmed
I don’t think I owe an apology but I would like to say thank you to James O’Brien.
Excellent response. I don’t owe you any apology. When a Christian or Jew extremist carries out a mass shooting or other acts of terror and Muslims get killed in that act, Muslims never demanded a #Christianapology or #Jewishapology. This is ridiculous. My deen is NOT to be blamed for every act of terror committed under the sun
Not sure that is 100% accurate. If a jew does horrible things, then they are asked to condemn it, and at the very least the US is asked to condem it.
But you are right, christians are not asked to.
There is a huge difference between an APOLOGY – which implies that you are guilty of a crime – and CONDEMNATION, which is outrage at the crimes of another. As far as condemnations is concerned, everyone among the Muslims is saying that the actions of these people were violent and brutal.
We’re covered on that front. But, exactly what do I, as a Muslim, have to apologise for, when the acts were committed by another person? Have Western governments apologised for the carnage in…well, all of the Middle East, let alone a blanket apology from their entire populations, which is exactly asking for an APOLOGY from Muslims requires.
@kalle klovn have u seen any nation asking the jews to condemn the atrocities the Israel troops commit against the innocent children of Palestine???? this is what the media does to us.
A simple question to think about: What is the apology for that being demanded? Is it because it was a human that committed these unjustifiable acts and because I am also human? Or is it because I am a Muslim and the person committed the act was a Muslim? Or are Muslims to apologise for someone who has misunderstood and twisted the deen? What is the apology for exactly?
We should not confuse condemnation with an apolology or feeling sad. Everyone I know feel sad and condem the act.
why are we even being asked to condemn it? there need not be any public condemnation for something which was never praise worthy in the first place. of course we condemn it but to be expected to do it publicly that is where the problem lies. oh and i’m not very sad that those cartoonists got killed. personally, i’d never have done it but oh well, good riddance.
why good riddance? Do you think they deserved to die for their freedom of speech and a harmless cartoon?
I do not agree with Ahmed’s view of ‘good riddance’ at all. I find it hugely sad (and part of the problem) that human life can be viewed so flippantly and cheaply.
However, the notion of ‘free speech’ and ‘harmless cartoons’ is also an incredibly blinkered and selfish one. Several aspects of Charlie Hebdo’s output were simply not ‘harmless’ (I think the events of this week prove that alone!). There have been many themes behind their work that were deliberately inflammatory, bigoted and provocative and if delivered in any other context (say for example with a loudhailer on the street) would be viewed, quite rightly, as incitement to religious/racial intolerance. You cannot accompany such sentiments with funny looking pictures and instantly expect the subjective concepts of ‘free speech’ or ‘artistic licence’ to excuse such things.
Nobody deserved to die for these cartoons, but to use them as some sort of example of liberty and freedom is very unwise in my opinion.
Free speech comes with the essential caveat that social responsibility and measure has to be employed. In reality no speech is ‘free’, all public speech is designed to garner some sort of reaction, that reaction is the cost.
The cost paid this week however was not a proportionate one.
you speak the truth. i too value human life. The Qur’an states that to save one person is like saving humanity itself. and to kill even a single person unjustly is like killing all of humanity (Qur’an 5:32). however, i do believe that people should be willing to live with the consequences of their actions. those cartoonists willingly made those cartoons in order to offend the muslim population. i don’t think they deserved to die for that but if that was the consequence of their actions then so be it.
no, they didn’t deserve to die. they did however deserve the consequences of their actions since they clearly wanted to offend the muslim population. i’m not condoning their murder but you can’t expect to play with fire and not get burned.
You think that people deserve to die just for saying or writing something that may “insult” your “prophet”?!
Muhammad (may **** **** be upon him) was a violent, psychopathic, ********* nut job!
There, was that insulting enough? Will I now deserve execution from your pathetic cult “religion”?!
Stop hiding in the 13th century and grow up.
lol you waste your breath. like i said, i would never have killed them myself or have them killed for that matter (since that is not what Islam commands us to do) but now that they are dead, *personally* i don’t think i feel very sad at all. And i don’t think they deserved to die either but what i will say is that they deserved the consequences of their actions. in this case, it just happened to be death.
Scott It is Muhammad peace be upon him and the best of mankind and a honour to every Muslims !
Oh, Ahmed, you silly-billy! Comments like yours are what add fuel to the fire. If you think saying you’re glad some people got murdered is ok, then you need to have a think about what kind of human being you are. Not Muslim, not Christian, not whatever the hell label, just as a basic human concept it is NOT ok to be glad some people got murdered.
Ahmed, I’m very disappointed in another human being accepting the unfortunate death of another human being as good riddance. Those cartoonists may have drawn pictures that where not tolerated by some, but they didn’t deprive someone of their life! Or deprive their families of a father, brother, son.
To the murders you may say good riddance, but to someone who has not harmed another, that’s simply not nice.
I’m sure you didn’t really mean that the way it sounds, as the rest of your comment was fair, so I’m going to presume you did not think that last comment through too much.
This is absolute class. Unfortunate the poor chap making the call couldn’t accept that the point he was making was wrong. Will somebody called Richard apologize on behalf of the guy. For the sake of the Richard Community.
Message from one of the Muslims who are exhausted from being forced to apologize (for whatever reason), Richard, I am really sorry for your embarrassment mate.
The thing is they don’t name on incident in the past twenty years. I’m not saying all Muslims are terrorists they’re not but all terrorists nowerdays seem to be Muslim, why is that ?
Simple answer Sean, because they say they are…..we all know they havn’t a clue what being muslim is about.
Actually, Sean, that’s just what the media wants you to think.
Here’s a list of recent ‘Christian’ terrorists:
Look at India, Myanmar and Sri Lanka and you’ll find examples of ‘Hindu’ and ‘Buddhist’ terrorists as well.
The zionist state of Israel has committed the best examples of state-sponsored terrorisms ever, ie ‘Jewish’ terrorists.
Fact is states can be terrorists, individuals can be terrorists, but it’s normally about power, bullying or injustice, not about anyone’s faith.